Arnold ORMSBEE/Ormsby abt 1770-1830s, New York - So many questions

My 4th great-grandfather on my maternal lines, Arnold ORMSBEE, alternately spelled Ormsby, born about 1770, died likely before 1830.

Early censuses in New York state show him with his family on the 1810 Census in the village of Manlius, Onondaga, New York, and in the 1820 Census, again in Manlius. Manlius is/was a small village about 10 miles southeast of Syracuse. On the 1810 Census, there seem to be 6 children under 15. To date, I have only identified three. Where are those other children? And the ages of the children don't seem to allow for all of them to be the eldest woman's children. Is she his second wife? And who is his wife? See snippet below...

1810: [All are Free White Persons] Manlius NY
  Males under 10  :    2
  Males 10 thru 15:    1
  Males 26 thru 44:    1  [this should be Arnold]
  Females under 10:   3
  Females 16 thru 25: 1 [this should be mother of children/wife of Arnold]
 Total in household : 8
I do wonder about the Females 16 thru 25 - surely it should be in the next column? But I checked the blank form, and it is very clear. The third column past the double lines is for 16 thru 25.  Letting her be 25 [maybe turning 26 later that year], that teenaged boy 10 thru 15 could only be hers if she were married at about 14-15 years. Very unusual.

1820: [All are Free White Persons] Manlius NY
  Males under 10    :  1
  Males 10 thru 15  :  1
  Males 16 thru 18  :  1
  Males 16 thru 25  :  2 [i.e., 1 male 19-25]
  Males 45 and over:  1 [this should be Arnold]
  Females under 10 :  1
  Females 10 thru 15: 1
  Females 26 thru 44: 1 [this should be mother of children/wife of Arnold]
   Total in household: 8

Arnold and his wife appear to have had about 7 children, from approximately 1795 to 1816: 4 boys, 3 girls. Of course, at least one of the children on a census might possibly be a neighbour's child, or a relative's child, helping out. No assumptions. The children I have been able to identify are the following:
   1)  Jacob ORMSBEE [ancestor] b. 21 Jun 1806 Pompey NY, d. 1 Apr 1893 Syracuse NY; m.[1] Sabra TOWERS abt 1824?, 5 children; m.[2]  Emily Hurd Dec 1869 Syracuse NY, no children.
  2)  Stephen Decatur Ormsbee b. 13 Jan 1816 Pompey NY, d. 30 Jul 1893 Syracuse NY; m. Martha Durston abt 1840; 4 children
  3)  Hannah Ormsbee, b. May 1818 Manlius NY, d. bef 1893 Onondaga Co., NY; m. Henry James Coon abt 1836 in Van Buren Onondaga NY; 5 children.

Clearly, I'm missing possibly 2 males, and 2 females, one of whom [Hannah] would have been only 2 yrs old for the 1820 Census - where was she this census day? Confusing.

In addition, there is a tick mark indicating the Enumerator saw that Arnold was involved in Manufacturing, as were half a dozen other individuals in the same neighbourhood.  What could it have been?

Also, I note the residence change for Hannah's birth, b. 1818. [see above]. Either the family moved or, Arnold's wife first deliberately birthed her children in Pompey, then stayed in Manlius for Hannah's birth; between 1816 to 1818 - Manlius lies about 8 miles north of Pompey. This gives me many more questions. Were her parents or at least her mother living in Pompey? Perhaps her mother died between 1816-1818? Did Arnold still have manufacturing concerns in Manlius earlier than 1820, but stayed in Pompey? Note, as a village, Pompey was established in July 1790 by the Land Office Commissioners [New York].

I have been unable to find further details of Arnold and wife. One family tree indicates her name was Hannah/Ann Sherman, but provided no sources. I have found no information of Arnold's wife, including no details of her death date/place. If Arnold died before her, she might well have lived with one of her children - or possibly a sister. But teasing out those bits of information can be quite difficult.

And of course, it could be that I have stumbled on the wrong ORMSBEE in Onondaga county, New York. Although a number of these Ormsbee individuals and their spouses, children, were all buried in the same large plot in Oakwood Cemetery, Syracuse, Onondaga, New York [graves of Graves and Ormsbee]. I do believe I'm correct, but of course, everything could be different!

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 If these are your ancestors, I am happy to share what little I have on these ancestors. And if there are errors, please do let me know, via calewis at telus dot net, or in the Comments below. I appreciate the opportunity to correct any issues in these family trees.

Blogger - or my computer - is still not letting me "reply" to your comments, for some unknown reason. If I don't reply to your Comment, please know that I'm totally thrilled you came to read my post and commented!  You truly make my day.

52 ANCESTORS in 52 WEEKS, #36: Arnold ORMSBEE

Following the challenge from Amy Johnson Crow to write a post weekly, 52 Ancestors in 52 Weeks, here is my 36th installment, Arnold ORMSBEE, my 4th great-grandfather on my mother's lines.

I know virtually nothing about my 4th great-grandfather. Until earlier this year, I didn't even have his name.  A very helpful volunteer for FindAGrave, Tom C., helped by adding information from the Oakwood Cemetery burial record books. Simply gold, such treasure to find another name in the family line.  This ORMSBEE line has been quite a brick wall for me for years, but now I have a few crumbs of clues.

Arnold ORMSBEE seems to have been married to a Hannah - but this is not yet proven.  I'm not certain where he was born, nor when he was married, but I do know he and his wife had at least two sons, as well as several daughters (unknown names):

1. Jacob [ancestor], b.21 Jun 1806, Pompey, Onondaga, NY; m. Sabra TOWERS about 1824, 5 children.
2. Stephen Decatur, b. 13 Jan 1816, Pompey, Onondaga, NY; m. Martha Durston; 3 children

The family may be found in listed in the Manlius' Census, even though both Jacob and Stephen say they were born in Pompey (beside Manlius).  A history of Manlius may be found by clicking here:  http://history.rays-place.com/ny/onon-manlius-ny.htm   

I found Arnold on the 1810 Census for Manlius, as follows: 

As you can see here (referring to blank forms) there are, 
Males: 2-under 10 yrs, 1-10 to 16, 1-26 to 45
    i.e., Arnold, plus 2 little boys (Jacob 4, plus unknown son), and 1 roughly teen son unknown
Females: 3-under 10, 1 16-26 yrs
    i.e., Arnold's wife (age seems rather low - she would have married extremely young?), plus 3 little daughters unknown to me

Here he is in the 1820 Census, again for Manlius:   

As you can see there are, in the Arnold Ormsbee household:  
Males:  1-under 10 yrs, 1-10 to 16, 1-16 to 18, 1-45 and up
    i.e., Arnold, and 3 sons, under 18 yrs of age (Jacob 14, Stephen 4, & an unknown older brother)
Females: 1-under 10, 1-10 to 16, 1 from 26-45
    i.e, Arnold's wife, and 2 daughters under 16 yrs of age, unknown to me
And there was 1 person "engaged in Manufacturing"
    i.e., Arnold? 

Hmmm. I thought Arnold was a farmer for some lost-to-me reason.  I clearly need to check out more records and newspapers to find out what "manufacturing" he might have been working at in Manlius.  

Arnold disappears after 1820 as a head of household.  An Isaac (I.F.A. Ormsbee) is listed on the 1830 Census and he may be an older brother.  I haven't researched him as yet.  

Both Stephen Decatur and his older brother, Jacob, worked as carpenters in the area. One might wonder if their father, Arnold, also was skilled with carpentry or some similar work. Interestingly, Stephen named his only son James Arnold Ormsbee, carrying on the same name. I have discussed Jacob ORMSBEE in a previous blog post: click here. 

Although both Stephen and his family, and Jacob and his family, are buried in Oakwood Cemetery in different plots and sections, I have not found burials of Arnold, nor other Ormsby/Ormsbee sons or daughters whom I can identify as having Arnold as a father. Challenging.

If you have any information or details - or suggestions - please do contact me via calewis at telus dot net or by Comments below.  I love to hear any ideas you may have.  And if you also have these Ormsbee's in your family, I'd love to see you.  

ASK - Just Ask!

The other day I was digging around online in the hopes of finally finding more information and documents on my 3rd greatgrandparents on my mother's line (mother's mother's mother's mother and father).  The ORMSBEE line, sometimes spelled Ormsby.  I could find them back to the early 1800s, but no further.  One more of those brick walls that didn't seem to have any chinks at all.

I had first discovered my greatgrandmother's parents' surname Ormsbee from a wedding invitation pasted in my greatgrandfather's Souvenir Album.  (See my other blog  in which I am slowly going through every page of the Album, inventorying and identifying items pasted there - I'm only up to page 7!).  Oh good, I had  thought at the time several years ago - an interesting unusual name to research.  Surely I'll be able to find these ancestors!  But I could not find much at all past a few Censuses, a few social notes in old newspapers, and an obituary for Jacob ORMSBEE.  On a limited budget and living on the opposite side of the continent,  I am quite dependent on free online or local resources for these New York and other New England region ancestors, as well as one commercial site. Plus WorldCat of course, for any published items available within a few hours' drive from Vancouver BC!

This weekend, I'll be having a short consultation with a local genealogy expert (as part of a genealogy visit), and I had put forward Jacob ORMSBEE as the person I wanted some assistance on finding his ancestors.  I suspect he must have been listening to me choose him for research...  Because this is what I found the very next day - here below is just one of the several photos (used with permission) from the recently updated FindAGrave Memorial page for Jacob.

I casually wandered over to FindAGrave to his grave posting, only to find an updated Memorial page for Jacob and his wife Sabra, sometimes known as "Sally".  In this posting was new information:  his parents' names - Arnold & Hannah Ormsbee, and his wife's father as S. Towers.  The posting also listed two more little girls after the three children I already knew of: one living to age 11, the other to age 3.  Sad, so sad to lose children at any age, but to lose two of one's children, the younger ones, seems so sad to me.  I found new wealth of detail ... "interesting but not impressive",  as my rather sarcastic mother used to say.

Where was the source to back up all this new-to-me information?  Was it credible?  Just because it's posted doesn't mean it's accurate, as anyone who does family history will know!  So I decided to write the photographer and ask where he got all this new information?

I immediately got back a quick reply that he and his friend are methodically updating memorials on this large cemetery with the details found in the Cemetery office Burial Register books.  Whatever was written down at the burial, in the book, details about relationships, dates, names, all usually given by the family. Amazing.  Relatively credible, so to speak (sorry for the bad pun). 

After several emails back and forth, I have given him more details about a missing older sister of my greatgrandmother, and clarified a few more details, as well as asking him more about the very large ORMSBEE-GRAVES obelisk on the plot. Unfortunately there's almost nothing engraved on the obelisk - it's more of an identifying post for the entire plot.

This morning he let me know he's emailing me a copy of the Cemetery burial register page which has details for "everyone buried in the plot"  - 16 people, several generations, with the cause of death for each one (if given) as well. Imagine!

All this wonderful information, just by asking politely.  And thanking very appreciatively, as well!

Ask.  Just ask.  You never know what you'll receive in return.